Debunking 365 Messianic Prophecies: 112-120 – Rabbi Michael Skobac

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Join us as we continue to investigate the alleged 365 messianic prophesies in the Tanakh that Jesus supposedly fulfilled in the New Testament!

112: Psalms 68:18…To give gifts to men…Ephesians 4:7-16

113: Psalms 68:18…Ascended into Heaven…Luke 24:51

114: Psalms 69:4…Hated without a cause…John 15:25

115: Psalms 69:8…A stranger to own brethren…Luke 8;20,21

116: Psalms 69:9…Zealous for the Lord’s House…John 2:17

117: Psalms 69:14-20…Messiah’s anguish of soul before crucifixion…Matthew 26:36-45

118: Psalms 69:20…”My soul is exceeding sorrowful.”…Matthew 26:38

119: Psalms 69:21…Given vinegar in thirst…Matthew 27:34

120: Psalms 69:26…The Savior given and smitten by God…John 17:4; 18:11

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19 Comments

  1. CBB says

    According to the logic used to create this list, wouldn’t Psalm 69:2 be PROOF that Jesus wasn’t the Messiah?

    Psa 69:2 I sink in deep mire, where there is no standing: I am come into deep waters, where the floods overflow me.

    Mat 14:25 And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea.

    😉

  2. Shali says

    Rabbi Skobac can try to “explain away” whatever he wishes, but that does NOT change the fact that Y’shua has already fulfilled hundreds of Messianic prophecies…with only a few more to go! http://therefinersfire.org/accurate_messiah_prophecies.htm Nobody can “unfulfill” a fulfilled prophecy!

  3. Frank says

    It’s a good point Rabbi Skobac makes about crossing Jesus off the list if it came down to drinking vinegar. I have the “Complete Jewish Bible” published by Jewish New Testament Press, and it has a list in the preface of prophecies that Yeshua fulfilled. They are as simple as the Messiah must come from the seed of a woman, be the offspring of Abraham, be the seed of Jacob, and so on. It seems so trivial. Of course, the Messiah will be the seed of a woman, and be the seed of Abraham, and of course the seed of Jacob (Israel). Others are like, be tender and unostentatious, be a priest, enter the temple with authority. Anyways, just thought I would share. Thank you for your and Rabbi Skobac’s work on this. I have found it so informing.

    Cheers!

  4. CBB says

    @Shali: “Nobody can “unfulfill” a fulfilled prophecy!”

    Shouldn’t fulfilled prophecies be absolutely obvious to anyone? I went to your link to look for some obvious proof…

    Did you actually look at these fulfilled prophecies? It appears that you just copied and pasted a link because it supported your position.

    Some of these “fulfilled prophecies” are simply laughable:

    21. When YHWH establishes His new covenant, Israel will come to know the Lord; not just His laws. Jeremiah 31:31-34 Matthew 11:29-30

    Mat 11:29-30 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

    How in the world does Mat 11:29-30 fulfill the new covenant of Jer 31:31-34? Obvious proof? No.

    26. To be called wonderful counselor Isaiah 9:5-6 Luke 4:22

    Luke 4:22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph’s son?

    HUH? where is “wonderful counselor” in this verse? Maybe “wondered at the gracious words” equals wonderful counselor?? Obvious proof? No.

    27. To be called everlasting father. Isaiah 9:5-6 Matthew 1:23

    Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

    Everlasting father? Huh, where? Obvious proof? No.

    28. To be called prince of peace. Isaiah 9:5-6 John 16:33

    Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

    Prince of Peace? where, what? Maybe because the verse has “peace” in it? Obvious proof? No.

    “Evidence” like this taints the entire list.

  5. Shali says

    Frank – you picked the obvious stuff to “pick on.” Why don’t you, instead, challenge Rabbi Skobac with this:

    (1) Why are the 52nd and 54th chapters of Isaiah read aloud every year in the synagogue, but Isaiah 53 is never read? This chapter seems to describe the life, trial, death and resurrection of Yeshua.

    (2) Also, if the suffering Servant of this chapter is “Israel” as the rabbis today claim, how can the servant die as a substitute for the sins of Isaiah’s people – Israel? That would mean that Israel is dying as a substitute for the sins of Israel…which doesn’t make much sense….Furthermore, can Israel be wounded for our transgressions? Can people take Israel’s garments and divide them?

    The rabbis of course will respond to the above by accusing us of misinterpreting “Suffering Servant” and “Israel” and denying that the 53rd chapter of the Book of Isaiah was never read. They will insist that the Jews have taken the “Suffering Servant” to be a symbol of the Jewish people and suggest ALL Jews are suffering servants and all serve to purify God through their suffering…..

  6. Yosef says

    I do not know where Y’shua has fulfilled any prophesies,,,, Look at Matthew 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth that if might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets ” He shall be called a Nazarene”.. He did not fulfill this one as it was never a prophesy..Matthew just made this one up.

  7. bob m says

    I think you guys should post a reply on this 365 prophecies site with all the prophecies about the gathering of “Israel” etc which the church completely ignores

  8. Sophie says

    Shali, you’ve been misinformed. Missionaries will claim that Jews “took out” Isaiah 53 readings from the Haftarah readings in the Synagogues because they were afraid Jews would realize Isaiah 53 is about Jesus. This is nonsense, of course. For one thing the Haftarah pre-dates Christianity by a good 200 years!

    Do you suppose those Jews 200 years before Jesus was supposedly born had some vision of him and thus removed Isaiah 53 from the Haftorah?

    Silly isn’t it.

    What is the Haftarah? Back in 175 BCE there was a ruler named Antiochus Epiphanes. He forbid the study of Torah. So the Rabbis gleaned through the ‘nach to find stories that had similar morals to the Torah portion (parsha) of the week. (Jews read the Torah cover to cover every year).

    After the decree was lifted Jews continued to read the Haftorah as well as the Torah portion weekly.

    Now keep in mind this was nearly 200 years BCE yet the Christians would have you believe that we expunged Isaiah 53 because it pointed to Jesus.

    1. We read ALL of the Tanach.

    2. We study ALL of the Tanach.

    3. At services we read a Torah and Haftorah portion weekly.

    4. The Haftorah was created nearly 200 years BCE

    So, hmmm if the Haftarah was created 200 BCE then WHAT DOES the lack of reading it on Shabbat have to do with Jesus????

    Nothing!

    Two ancient Midrashim, Pesikta DRav Kahana, and Pesikta Rabbosei DRav Kahana tell the story about the creation of the Haftorah. It has been unchanged since its creation. 200 years BCE.

    Antiochus forbade the reading of Torah and thus the Rabbis created the Haftorah — stories from Prophets that had similar moral themes to the normal weekly parsha.

    You know us Jews and traditions — even when we were allowed to once again read Torah we kept the tradition of reading the Haftorah, too.

    From the Jewish Virtual Library: “The custom of reading the haftorah predates the Talmudic period. Some date it back to the time of King Antiochus, a 2nd century BCE Syrian-Greek who forbade the Jews to read from the Torah but did not extend this ban to the Prophets. The haftorah is selected because of a thematic relationship to the weekly Torah reading or to that day or time period. A boy often reads the haftorah at his bar mitzvah. In non-Orthodox synagogues, a girl reads the haftorah at her bat mitzvah.”

  9. Sophie says

    Whether or not the servant in Isaiah 53 is Israel is immaterial to the question of whether or not the servant in Isaiah 53 could be Jesus. Isaiah 53 doesn’t “fit” Jesus.

    Jesus did not suffer from long illness as is described in Isaiah 53:3 — the meaning of 53:3 speaks of a long, debilitating type of illness.

    There are five parts of Isaiah 53 at least which show clearly that it doesn’t fit Jesus

    1. where are his living, breathing descendents from his zera?

    2. when did he die multiple deaths?

    3. when did he die with the rich?

    4. when was he buried with the poor?

    5. How can one describe Jesus as non-violent? (Moneychangers ring a bell?). “made a scourge of cords and drove them all out” (John 2:15); “Do not think that I came to bring peace to the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” (Matt. 10:34, Luke 12:51) — and there are more. . .

    Isaiah does identify Israel as the suffering servant time and time again, although midrashically it has been used to describe others including Moses and Dovid HaMelech (King David) — but all of that is really immaterial. The question a Christian needs to ask themselves is “reading it completely, not leaving “bits” out — does it fit Jesus?” And the answer is a resounding “no.”

  10. Frank says

    Shali,

    This is the problem. Christianity claims that Jesus fulfilled hundreds of prophecies. Where are these hundreds of prophecies? I think the problem is is that we are using prophecies that don’t really matter such as being a seed of the woman, being the seed of Abraham, being the seed of Jacob. Is Jesus the only blessing through the seed of Abraham? Are not the Jews who bring the knowledge of God to the world also a blessing? We all know that of course the messiah will be a seed of Israel because he is Jewish and is the Jewish Messiah. So counting these as prophecies seems a bit trivial. I grew up learning about Jesus being the Messiah, but I never search for myself to see if any of these fulfilled prophecies actually came true.

  11. Darren says

    Christian dogma was way too erratic in its complex circular reasoning structure for me, I’ve learned to adopt the KISS principle.

    Deu 29:29 “The secret things belong to YHVH our God, but the things that are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this Torah.”

  12. Michael says

    Darren, not to mention “Surely the L-rd G-d does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets.” Amos 3:7. Yet not one prophet mentioned that the eternal Torah and everlasting covenants were to be thrown away when Jesus showed up?

  13. Darren says

    Thank you Michael, I’ve been duped for a great part of my life believing that somehow this Jesus of Christianity ended the eternal covenant our Creator made with Israel, along with His Torah.

    I no longer read Revelation of the NT to my children, but now emphasize the revelation of our Maker’s Prophets in the Hebrew Tanakh.

    Zec 10:6 “I will strengthen the house of Judah, and I will save the house of Joseph. I will bring them back because I have compassion on them, and they shall be as though I had not rejected them, for I am the L-rd their G-d and I will answer them.”

    Isa 2:3 And many peoples shall go and say: ‘Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the L-rd, to the house of the G-d of Jacob; and He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths.’ For out of Zion shall go forth the Torah, and the word of the L-rd from Jerusalem.
    Isa 2:4 And He shall judge between the nations, and shall decide for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

  14. Roberta says

    Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.

    He was followed by the crowd.
    He had people waiving palm branches.

    Pretty different than Isaiah 53.

    How many witness against something we need to call is a fraud?

  15. Coal says

    Could you guys please, please sometime do a discussion of why a person should believe in the TaNaKh? I would truly appreciate it and know of some other people that would too. kind of having crises of faith, out here in Missouri…. comparing Deism to Judaism…… a program on why a person should believe the TaNaKh would help…. Thank you!!!

  16. Roberta says

    Coal

    A couple things.

    – The seven year of the rest of the land. If the Tanach was incorrect, that would be a religion that would have lasted just 6 years, because they could not eat for almost 2 years!
    – The very existence of the Israelites after so many extermination attempts, without a land
    – Stories about exile and return being fulfilled
    – The prophecies related to natural events that could not be manipulated, such as drought.

  17. Coal says

    interesting points; thank you Roberta. it IS beneficial to the soil itself to have a rest, so it is illogical that a scientifically illiterate tribe in the desert would have come up with this law out of coincidence, considering from their perspective it was an imposition, if not a dangerous and lifethreatening thing to not grow crops for a year. alos, there are similar things prohibited or commanded by Torah that are harmful or beneficial respectively to humanity- like circumcision- prevents infection. prohibition of homosexual acts- harmful to health. and not to mention the moral laws against stealing, etc. I’d still like to see a program on this…. but hey you guys are the experts 🙂 thank you all have a great day!!!

  18. Roberta says

    Coal, you are welcome. I am not an expert on anything but canning tomatoes 🙂

    Now, another important point about the 7th year rest it is that they could not plant anything, instead, they needed to wait for a bumper crop to last until the next time seed could go on the ground. If you live on what you grow, you must really believe He would provide. It is not like you can grow things at any time of the year.

  19. Sophie says

    Jews believe in G-d not out of faith, but out of knowledge. D’varim (Deuteronomy) 4 and D’varim 13 (Deuteronomy) make it clear that Judaism is a religion based not on “blind faith” but on fact — an actual experience of listening to G-d and following His directions. We do not “believe” because someone told us stories, or even because of “miracles” or “supernatural / spiritual” experiences — but because we saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears — and then taught it l’dor v’dor (from generation to generation). This is called “National Revelation.” G-d spoke to the entire nation of over 3 million people at Sinai. G-d then led us through the desert for 40 years with mana to feed us. . .

    Father told son and mother told daughter in each generation. I’m not saying these are reasons for a non-Jew to believe us, but explaining why Jews know there is a G-d. It is hard to make up a lie and have 3 million people agree on the same lie! Do an internet search on the Kuzari Principle which presents good arguments on how impossible it would be to fake Judaism’s National Revelation. There are archeologcal artifacts dating back 3000 years (the priestly blessing has been found on 3500 year old silver scrolls). There is also DNA showing that the Jewish priestly class was founded by a common male ancestor at exactly the time Sinai / the Exodus occurred (this is Aaron, Moses’ brother).

    The Rambam (Maimonides) puts it clearly in HilkhotYesodei Hatorah, 8,1-2 “The Jewish people did not believe in Moshe our teacher because of the miracles he performed. If one believes in something because of miracles, he may suspect that they were performed through sleight of hand or sorcery…We believe in Moshe because of what happened at Mount Sinai. Our own eyes saw, not a stranger’s, our own ears heard, and not another’s…The revelation at Sinai is the only real proof that Moses’ prophecy was true and above suspicion.

    “What is our source of belief in Him?

    “The revelation at Mount Sinai. Our own eyes, not some stranger’s, saw; our own ears and not another’s heard … the voice spoke to him and we heard, “Moshe, Moshe, go tell them the following….

    “How is it known that Mount Sinai alone is proof of the truth of Moses’ prophecy that leaves no apprehension? (Sh’mot / Exodus 19:9): Behold! I will come to you in a thick cloud, so that the people will hear Me speaking to you, so that they will believe in you forever. It appears that before this happened, they did not believe in him with a faith that would last forever, but rather with a faith that allowed for suspicions and doubts….

    “Moshe our teacher knew that one who believes in a person because of miracles has apprehensions in his heart, and that he has doubts and suspicions. Therefore he sought to be released from the mission saying, “They will not believe in me” until the Holy One Blessed be He informed him that these wonders were only intended as a temporary measure until they left Egypt. After they left, they would stand on this mountain [Sinai] and all the doubts which they had about him would be removed….This is what is meant by (Exodus 3:12): “This will be your sign that I sent you: when you take the people out of Egypt, you will serve G-d on this mountain.”

    “Thus we do not believe in any prophet who arises after Moshe because of the miracles that he performs alone, as if to say: If he performs a miracle we will listen to everything he has to say. Rather, [we listen to him] because it is a Mitzvah which we were commanded by Moshe who said: if he performs a miracle listen to him. ”

    Hope that helps!

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