8 Comments

1. 

   Joel says

   If John the Baptizer was Elias, that would also mean he would have had to have two physical births! And never died!

2. 

   Joel says

   Or one death…. as we know he lost his head!

3. 

   Darren says

   Okay, in the church I was led to believe that the “spirit” of Elijah had come. Jesus is the reigning spiritual king in his spiritual kingdom providing spiritual peace, heaven is a spiritual place, the commandments are spiritual, the Christians are spiritual Israel and on and on spiritually.

   Well after studying the Hebrew Tanakh, I’ve become much less spiritual. I am waiting for a physical Elijah with the coming of a reigning physical Messiah, living in a physically peaceful Kingdom under the physical instructions of the Torah, with the physical Jewish people and in the physical Land called Israel.

   The beauty of the Hebrew Scriptures is that our Maker, the God of Israel, has always been merciful to the “strangers”, and is much more real, literal, and physical than Christianity makes Him out to be.

   Eze 47:22 And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you and to the strangers that sojourn among you, who shall beget children among you; and they shall be unto you as the home-born among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel.
   Eze 47:23 And it shall come to pass, that in what tribe the stranger sojourneth, there shall ye give him his inheritance, saith the Lord GOD.

4. 

   Joel says

   You know, there people out there, so called Teachers. Who tell us to study, and study and study, and that is what we do, and when we disagree with them, they think we are so dumb that we can not even think for ourselves!

   Reality Check Church Lady: Maybe some of us have studied and could not cope with the lies and contradiction contained in the Roman bible. We are accused of letting Rabbis talk us into giving up Jesus, like yesterday’s trash. It’s just ridiculous that we are portrayed as ignorant followers of these seducing Rabbis. We couldn’t possibly be seeing all the NT lies through the light of Tanahk. We did what the Teachers told us to do and studied for our selves, then we become deceived because we no longer believe these so called teachers?

   This is really, funny, wonderful and liberating. No longer to be in fear of family members burning in hell for all time, because they don’t believe in this man going around saying believe in me, with absolutely no proof of anything, he even contradicts himself many times.! As a matter of fact, great lies and deception is used by all the writers of the So called New Testament to get us to believe the garbage.

   I myself studied for years, and could never connect the old with the new, until I sought out the Rabbis, Until I SOUGHT out the truth of all the scriptures, Not just the so called Roman bible. Then I understood the scriptures I was reading.

   Hosea 11:8~9
   8 How shall I give thee up, E’phraim? How shall I deliver thee, Israel? How shall I make thee as Admah? How shall I set thee as Zeboi’im? Mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together.
   9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy E’phraim: for I am God1, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.

   In retrospect I can tell you Just what He was going to do…
   He was going to give E’phraim an Idol to worship, that is able to point people back to the Torah and back to YHWH, It does not mean we should forever hold onto that Idol!

   In that, I have to say WOW, what a merciful God we serve! This was actually the halfTorah I came out on…. It is the Torah Portion that I realized that Jeremiah 16:19~20 goes much deeper then just following Messianic teachings.
   It goes all the way back to Chalcedonianism and the building of the N.T Roman Bible.

   And what I see now, and what I have done is in complete compliance with Zechariah 8:23.

   I think instead of spending so much time bashing us, and complaining that we are ignorant they need to do a reality check on themselves! They will seek to hold as many in the lie as they can, but their days are numbered. I see true prophecy being fulfilled.

   If they truly want to convince us of the new Testament, they need to put a valid argument for it, instead of attacking us and trying to belittle us, because we are going to put it right back in their faces! Measure for Measure!

   Montey Judah once said, “It is important to know WHY you believe something,” That is what many of us have done, searched out the why!
   And that is what will continual to be. Rabbis do not have to seek us, we search for them. But Church Lady seems to want to close their mouths! Silence them. These are exciting times, As Tovia says, I can hear the foot steps of Messiah!

   I’m encouraged to stand up and fight the beast on the Alter! Kick her off….

   Blessed by HaShem forever!

5. 

   Joel says

   I was thinking yesterday, the New Testament produced the Longest war of the history of the world. The Flavians knew what they were doing when they created it. It has brought more hardship and more dishonor on the Jewish people, then any war in History. 2000 years later, there is a fight to keep such an anti-Semitic, anti-Jewish document alive!

   It is unreal, how a thinking person can ever accept it, after knowing all there is to know about it! Just unreal, and weather Jesus lived or was completely made up, makes no difference. He was not the Messiah, He is found no where in Tanaka except, he is clearly mentioned in Zechariah 13, the biggest false prophet in history!

   The NT, is surely the root of all evils!

6. 

   Joel says

   Ok, so Carmen wants to lift our post off here and post them on her wall on refiners fire…

   But she dont want us to defend ourselves on her page because she can not answer the question!!!! She deleted my post and gave a lame and inaccurate reply to it…. but she wants to us parts of what I said on her pages…. That’s kind of like the writing on the new testament!!! Now ain’t that Special!

   This was the rebuttal I got off my post on Carmen’s wall!!!! Shali is the name she was listed under on Shema Yisrael

   I only asked her if she would be honest and post it! And gave her proofs… Apparently not! She deleted my post 😀

   Joel January 16, 2015 at 4:49 AM This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Reply

   Shali January 16, 2015 at 10:24 AM Joel, we started to respond to all your allegations and your newly-found “proof” that Y’shua and the NT are myths…but then decided we’re not lowering ourselves to argue with someone who accuses us of being “dishonest” and outright “lying” concerning our beliefs. We know from experience that, no matter WHAT proof we present, people like you will not listen. So…you just keep believing whatever you want, but we ask that you leave us alone. We’ve got nothing to say to you! You’re not looking to discuss; you’re looking to BASH, and we won’t have it.
   Reply
   http://blog.therefinersfire.org/2015/01/rejecting-yshua-is-blaspheming-holy.html

7. 

   ShoutedTheDustSpeck says

   There are some well thought out comments here and I have to say, I admire your passion. I think, however, that if something is true, then it can hold up to a great deal of rebuttal and remain strong. This does not apply only to another person’s argument, but to our own current beliefs and understandings.

   If you look back on history and on most of our own personal histories, it has been this blind agreement with like-minded individuals that has gotten most of us into trouble. People have to decide if they are going to passively nod their heads, completely shut out anything different or take the time to look into the information? This is not a decision, I think, anyone can make for anyone else. Looking internally, however, it has to be decided if we are going to shut out anything that does not agree with where we currently stand? Where would any of us be if we did that?

   I do admire the passion of others as well, even if I do not agree. We have the freedom to disagree and that is a major gift in of itself. Many people do not have that option without serious consequences.

   It is easy to look down on others that are perceived as lagging and falling far behind where it is thought that they should be by now. It is easy to get frustrated and roar “Why don’t you see the obvious!” Guilty here, for sure (at least internally)…

   I think it good, sometimes, to remember what is is like to be a relationship. People on the outside may agree with it or disagree, but love can be very blinding. If the person is good for them and truly misunderstood by those around, then only the beloved will see. If the person is harmful and hurtful, sometimes no measure of contempt and argument will get them to see that the relationship is killing them. I think being in a relationship on a spiritual level with a messiah or with a god is little different. It requires a surgically precise kind of empathy and compassion to first listen and then to mutually present ideas that can either be accepted or rejected with respect.

   I’ve read many flame-ups between groups trying to argue the truth into one another. Tempers flare, although I do believe both sides to be completely well meaning underneath it all. I have never had the experience of watching one or the other yield to a new idea under these circumstances. No one grows.

   I understand the passion of Shali and Joel and I, again, think it good that they can fight back against things they don’t agree with. It is a skill and a step that many will not take at all and a vital one to finding the way out of what we know and discovering what is or is not true. I think it is cool that they are here threshing it out with the rest of us.

   I also understand the mass of internal chaos and sense of betrayal present when you find out that you have been lied to. It is a insanely rough process. Dealing with that is like riding a bull.

   Deuteronomy 13:3 Opposition is inevitable.

8. 

   Dave says

   Michael claimed that Yeshua went around demanding people to believe in him or go to hell. I would just like to ask which verse Michael was referring to? Thanks!