Tovia Singer – Daniel 9 & the Word of Jeremiah

Daniel

For thus says YHVH: After seventy years are completed at Babylon, I will visit you and perform My good word toward you, and cause you to return to this place. For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says YHVH, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart. I will be found by you, says YHVH, and I will bring you back from your captivity; I will gather you from all the nations and from all the places where I have driven you, says YHVH, and I will bring you to the place from which I cause you to be carried away captive. – Jeremiah 29:10-14

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16 Comments

  1. James says

    People think other People think like they do but it is not true. When someone criticizes another all they are telling you is what they would do if they were in the other persons shoes. I look around the world and see disintegrating religious and political institutions that I trace back to our People asking for a king other than Yehovah. Question, “Is the Peoples sovereignty a repudiation of Yehovah’s sovereignty?” Why do People wish to perpetuate Nicolaitan systems of governance? The real mystery to me is why the many, who possess the force, would submit their desires to the few for approval. David Hume’s answer is “… by opinion only are the many ruled by the few.” Why should we settle for mans opinion when our Creators is available?

  2. Christy says

    Excellent. When can we address the elephant in the room?

  3. Christy says

    Oops, my wrist hit send before I got started. The elephant I’m referring to is who the “prince” who is to come is. Is it the same being as in Isa 14 – the King of Babylon/Rome who many across the world insists ascended to the throne of our Creator?

  4. eileen says

    Luke 24 13 -35 road to Emmaus (Luz) from Moses and the prophets the Lord expounded to Cleophas (meaning vision & glory or the whole glory) about Him in the writtings.
    Both sides have bagage but ‘do you love Him’??

  5. Ida Blom says

    Is it possible to include in Part 3 the other reason why Daniel was distressed, Rabbi Singer? I remember your discussion on the radio program about the Great and Terrible Day of the LORD and how that could possibly be prevented by certain preceding events.

  6. Dave says

    “Seventy weeks are determined for YOUR PEOPLE and for YOUR HOLY CITY. To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy.”

    I think the most glaring problem with Tovia’s interpretation is that he would have us believe these seventy weeks (or 490 years) were completed and fulfilled in 70 A.D. with the destruction of the temple! This theory couldn’t possibly portray a picture more 180 degrees opposite of the one described in the prophecy! I know he tries to get around the problem by saying that this is when the Messianic age became possible if Israel would just repent …but that desperate position is patently absurd. I guess it’s too bad poor Daniel didn’t know there was an “if” caveat involved. He shouldn’t have gotten his hopes up on YHWH’s promise I guess. How do you think Daniel understood these words? I dare say there was no question in Daniel’s mind whatsoever that at the completion of the seventy weeks the Messianic age would begin …period.

  7. Dave says

    The prophecy goes on:

    “Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty two weeks; the street shall be built again and the wall even in troublesome times.”

    It is important to note that the command concerns exactly what Gabriel said the weeks concerned. Daniel’s HOLY CITY Jerusalem! It wasn’t any command to rebuild the temple. It had to be a command to rebuild the city. Cyrus sent the Jews back to rebuild the temple only. This command is found at the end of 2Chronicles in 36:22-23 and repeated on the next page in Ezra the first chapter. The entire book of Ezra describes the rebuilding of the temple, the resistance to it, and the complete opposition to the rebuilding of the city itself because Cyrus’s decree hadn’t provided for it! So there is no way Cyrus’s decree can be construed to be the command to rebuild Jerusalem the city as Tovia would have us believe! The command to rebuild the city came later in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes as recorded in Nehemiah 2:1-9.

  8. Dave says

    There was no confusion in Daniel’s mind as to when the 70 years of exile would end. This seems to be Tovia’s own personal commentary. He laminates a problem onto the scene that isn’t there! If you had never heard Tovia’s theory, you would never get the idea from Daniel’s prayer alone that he was worried Israel was in for 7 times the exile. Tovia then builds on this false premise to argue that Daniel was confused!!

    Tovia also leads us by the nose with a cute little anecdotal story that God sent Gabriel to speak to Daniel but they stopped him because He wanted to hear more of Daniel’s prayer! It is cute and touching and tends to draw a person toward believing Tovia, but the facts from the context suggest a very different picture. Daniel said that Gabriel was caused to “fly swiftly”, and one translation says Gabriel “being weary with weariness” finally “reached” Daniel about the time of the evening offering. The picture is clear, it was distance that took Gabriel’s time …not God saying “wait”.

  9. Dave says

    Tovia tries to make an issue of the word “command” in this verse suggesting that it means “word” and is in reference to Jeremiah’s prophecy …again, a slight of hand. This is where it is best to use the immediate context to understand the word “command”. Just two verses earlier in verse 23 Gabriel uses the exact same word when he says, “At the beginning of your supplications the command went out…” …and here it obviously means an order, or edict. It doesn’t mean anything like the prophetic word of Jeremiah as Tovia would rather we see it. So when it says “from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem” we need to look for an order or edict …and as mentioned, that edict went out in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes.

  10. Dave says

    Tovia tries to make a huge issue of the placement of a semicolon in Christian English translations saying some have it right and some have it wrong. The fact is that there is no punctuation at all in the Hebrew text and it is open to interpretation. He has no grounds on which to insist it must be his way. So it must be interpreted in light of the surrounding context in which it is used. Along with this is Tovia’s accusation that Christians dishonestly translated the Hebrew word anointed to Messiah. Of course the Hebrew word is the same, but this time the word is used in conjunction with the words “the Prince”. This is specifically in reference to Gabriel’s mention of the “Prince of princes” in his previous visitation to Daniel as recorded in 8:25 and is obviously in reference to Israel’s Messiah …Yahshua. Christianity was perfectly justified in making the distinction here. This mention of Messiah or anointed couldn’t possibly have been in reference to Cyrus anyway, because as mentioned, he never gave the command to restore and rebuild the city!

  11. Dave says

    Regardless of the “semicolon” issue, I must say that Tovia was right about one thing. There does seem to be a clear distinction between the 7 and the 62 weeks. I have wondered about this for a while. I agree that one reason was to highlight the Sabbatical cycle which our Jewish brothers had not obeyed. Which makes me wonder about the Jubilee years, (which no Christian scholars counts in this prophecy).

    How many decrees has there been in history regarding the rebuilding of Jerusalem??

    Two!! And both of them during a time of “distress”. Maybe this is why the language is so strange regarding the 7 and 62? Because they are two separate time periods regarding the rebuilding of JERUSALEM,( like the prophecy states).

    The first: Artaxerxes made the decree to rebuild Jerusalem *around* 446 BC. I wonder if someone could do the math on 62 weeks of years (with the Jubilees included). That would be funny if it landed right around year zero, wouldn’t it?

    The second: Was in 1967 when the Jewish people recapture Jerusalem! It seems that the Jubilee cycle is now easy to see in our own day:

    General Allenby marches into Jerusalem 1917, then the Jews take back Jerusalem 1967 with the 6 day war. Could the next big event be the the return of (you know who) for Yom Kippur 2017? As Keith would say: “time will tell”.

    Hey….aren’t there some weird signs in the heavens coming up (during the feasts) in Jerusalem. Just a thought.

  12. Dave says

    I didn’t think so.

  13. Coal says

    could Tovia or Jono map out tovias timeline in the comments under this video…… for those of us who are visual learners…. please? thank you sirs!!!!!!!!!

  14. coal says

    🙂

  15. Greg says

    Willl any of you hovaw people bother to research and verify H-1942 AND H-1943? 🙁 (RUIN, CALAMITY, VERY WICKEDNESS…)

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