Ira Michaelson – Treasures from the Tanakh – Job 2:1-3:26
What is known about the council of God? Did Job have leprosy? Moreover, was he in a literal hell while wishing to be in Sheol? Did all his misery befall Job on his birthday?
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Is it not quite humourous that Jobs wife who advised him to “curse God and die” lives on through the ordeal and has nine pregnancies to deal with; seven sons and three daughters, so she was a busy woman for a number of years , even if they could afford ‘wet nurses’
How sad it would be to lose all your children before you. Do you not think that Job’s wife was not also in great dispair, hurt, pain, and sorrow? Of couse she was. We tend to say things in our dispair that we cannot take back. She too also needed comfort from her husband. Was she not also righteous being the wife of Job? Although I feel what Job was going through, I also feel the pain of being a mother that would lose all her childen at one time.
“Sons of Elim and son of Elah” – interesting how it appears everywhere in Daniel – esp. Daniel 3:25 – when the fourth person in the midst of the fire was “in the form the Son of Elah.” It almost seems as if Elah is used interchangeably with Elohim?
Would also be interesting to know how this relates to “Tsevaot”? – hosts of heaven – i.e. stars, angels, armies, etc. as referred to in the Masei Torah Pearls this past week.
Monday 30th
Hello Jono and Ira” Blessing to all of your house.
This is a fantastic program with the book of Job.”
It was supposed to go out Saturday early morning after
I listened to this great program but I have been keeping late nights working and my body finally forced me to shut down and since then I have been busy working on a few of my projects but
I will send it out today this program is so good I am listening to it again. I just stoped to post my thoughts now that I am awake.
Below is what I started to send out Saturday at 4:AM
Ira is a very good speaker and
Jono you make it all happen.
Great work.
“KUDOS”
Sunday 28th
Thank you.
Yes Job is a fantastic book’
I listened to the session last night but I was too tired to respond
I started because I was so excited but I phased out and had to give in to my body I have been working till 4 and 5 in the morning this week so last night my mind was shutting down
and finally crashed but it was a very exciting show for me.
This is what I started to write last night”
Great’ great” great;
right on!
This is so good it is like a number one soap opera on TV that makes the viewer so excited with anticipation to see more but in this case to hear more I really did enjoy this program, this is the meat I have been craving for! All of your shows are interesting but this program with the book of Job is already outstanding.
Milk will give the body a little nourishment to but it is the meat that will satisfy the soul. My soul is getting satisfaction from this teaching and I am looking forward to next week already” and just imagine there will be 40 weeks more of exciting interpretation and learning if you go chapter by chapter.
You make a great team.
Something did come to mind when you mentioned that Job is the first book in the Torah I believe that there is a book that is before Job but it was taken out or not included in the Torah the book of Enoch.
If Enoch is the seventh from Adam and he is mentioned in the Torah and the New Testament then he should be very relevant to YHVH so much so, that Yahovah decided to bring him into His presence even before Elijah not much is said about Enoch in the Torah but it is only because mans tradition felt it best that the world did not need to hear what Enoch has to say.
But for those with inquisitive minds you can still research it.
I do not say that I stand behind it as a 100% fact but
the Book of Enoch is still a very interesting read.
Since YHVH created all things and all things are held together by Him than it is obvious that Satan must obey YHVH”
and yes Satan is fulfilling
YHVH’s plan…
Shalom…
My question is this: if there is no “Satan” or otherwise “evil princes and rulers/powers of the air” (etc.) then are you saying YHWH is also fully responsible for all of the evil in the world?
I know at least a portion of evil comes from the heart of man.
What I am after is to better understand things we would classify as true “evil forces.” For one example, the “secret information” that is derived from diviners, satanists, witchcraft, etc.,etc. It is my understanding we are warned in Torah not to council with the dead or other spirits…. Balaam being an example, a diviner, the Witch of Endor, etc. If they are all frauds and all of what they do stems from man, then a) why are we warned against them? and b) how do they discover information they would not know? Are you saying YHWH is the one who answers them instead?
Sorry if my question is not clear and thanks for your time. 🙂
G’day LaDonna,
Great question! Here’s a couple of verses that may help to answer…
Isaiah 45:7, ‘I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.’
Amos 3:6, “Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?”
Lamentations 3:37-38, “Who is he that saith, and it cometh to pass, when the Lord commandeth it not? Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?”
We know that Yehovah was the one who answered Balaam, the witch of Endor was answered by Samuel. Yet they were disobedient. We should not be.
I hope that answers the question 🙂
thank you for this teaching on the book of Job, this is great, makes me want to work on my hebrew more
G’day!
Thanks for the verses – I have tucked them away to study this Shabbat. 8)
After freaking out for a while, I decided tackling the nature of “God” was little too much at the moment, so I thought I’d start with “Satan.”
First I decided to look up the origins of what I’d been taught about Satan. Turns out the tradition I was raised with, bases their story off of a clip of verses out of Revelations 12. I needed to find if ‘tradition’ had any collaborative verses in the Tanakh. As far as I can tell, there are only two: Isaiah 14:12-14 and Ezekiel 28:12-18.
To me, the passage from Isaiah is obviously taken out of context, so that doesn’t count in my book. The passage in Ezekiel is also suspect, due to it being about a king of Tyr.
Question on this passage would be: how do we understand the poetical language in Ezekiel 28?, particularly verses 13-19? How do they apply to the king of Tyr?
Seeing tradition once more turn into a potential straw man, I then decided to look up “Satan” even though I know I lack the ability to see what the word is in Hebrew.
If “Satan” is an adversary only, and not an actual being, who was the “adversary” who incited David in 1 Chronicles 21:1? And who is the opposing party in Zechariah 3?
I think I am still missing something….
In regards to 1 Chronicles 21:1 see 2 Samuel 24:1, “Again the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, “Go, number Israel and Judah.””
Regarding Zechariah 3:1-2, it seems to me that an “adversary” (who may simply be a man) opposed the High Priest, Joshua, perhaps because of his appearance. Yet Yehovah rebuked this “adversary” through the messenger of God and commissioned the adversary to “take away the filthy garments from him”. A humbling experience I’m sure 😉
So Funny
Attacked by the devil as he parked illegally.
Listening for the third time, & anticipating chapter 3.
The Leviathan is a very intriguing part of the Book of Job.
Proof of Man co-existing with Dinosaurs shatters the evolutionary lie.
Hellish exitence on earth…
—->-WOW-<—-
Jono, I could hug you. Praise YHWH! I KNEW he had a cross reference!
Blessed night, and I shall read/study more on the morrow.
@Jono – you said:
Regarding Zechariah 3:1-2, it seems to me that an “adversary” (who may simply be a man) opposed the High Priest, Joshua, perhaps because of his appearance. Yet Yehovah rebuked this “adversary” through the messenger of God and commissioned the adversary to “take away the filthy garments from him”. A humbling experience I’m sure …
so while the precept of the adversary that you have explained has always been my stand, I wonder why does this verse mention ‘satan’ standing at the ‘right’ hand of the angel of the Lord…and then the Lord rebukes this ‘satan’ .. are you saying that this ‘satan’ would simply be a human adversary … not the ‘satan’ that the RCC has passed along to us?
G’day Pam,
I don’t believe the “Satan” that the RCC has passed along to us exists anywhere in the Tanakh. However, “the satan” or “hasatan” certainly exists in a descriptive form, just not as the name of a specific and consistent personality (as indicated by the capital “S” in English translations. In the case of Zechariah 3:1, “hasatan” is used exactly the same way in Psalm 109:6, “Set Thou a wicked man over him; and let an adversary stand at his right hand.” (JPS)
I am just listening to this and heard the part about Job’s wife. I agree with Whanda…we need to try to look at this from her perspective. I’ve never done that until now. I know Job was the “target” of these bad events, but his wife suffered, too, let’s not forget.